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--- omniscient-time [2025/09/16 20:04] – [Logical impossibilities] kbieb
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-[[start|Index]]
-====== If God is omniscient and therefore knows who is going to be saved, why does he create people that are not going to be saved? ======
-<WRAP center round important 60%>
-**Be advised**:
-I am not the only one that has had this theory but as far as I know I am the only one that frames it in this particular way. However, it's not a popular idea and could be considered heretical. Remember, while here on Earth, we don't see God's plan clearly ([[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013%3A12&version=AMP|1 Corinthians 13:12]]), so this is just speculation that probably has no bearing on the truth, but it does help me understand some things better.
-</WRAP>
-===== Definition of omniscient =====
-With respect to the Bible, the term "omniscient" means that God has perfect, that is complete and infinite, knowledge of all things. This includes all things past, present and future.
-===== Biblical passages for God's omnisicence =====
-Arguments in the Bible for God's omniscience are:
-Old Testament
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2046%3A9-10&version=AMP|Isaiah 46:9-10]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2033%3A13&version=AMP|Psalm 33:13]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20139%3A1-6&version=AMP|Psalm 139:1-6]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20139%3A15-16&version=AMP|Psalm 139:15-16]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20147%3A5&version=AMP|Psalm 147:5]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%208%3A39&version=AMP|1 Kings 8:39]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=job%2031%3A4&version=AMP|Job 31:4]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=job%2034%3A21&version=AMP|Job 34:21]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%2037%3A16&version=AMP|Job 37:16]]
-New Testament
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%203%3A20&version=AMP|1 John 3:20]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2010%3A29-30&version=AMP|Matthew 10:29-30]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202%3A24&version=AMP|John 2:24]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2016%3A30&version=AMP|John 16:30]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%204%3A12-13&version=AMP|Hebrews 4:12-13]]
-  * [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201%3A25&version=AMP|1 Corinthians 1:25]]
-===== Logical impossibilities =====
-So, there's no shortage of references in the Bible to God being omniscient and it's pretty specific and clear and therefore I do not argue against God's omniscience. I believe that he is omniscient. I think that omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresent are the very nature of God. I argue against the definition of omniscience. I believe God has perfect and complete knowledge of all things that are knowable. What things are knowable and more importantly, what things are unknowable?
-There is a silly question that non-believers like to ask relating to God's omnipotence: If God is all powerful, can he make a rock so heavy that even he can't lift it? If the answer is yes, then God isn't all powerful because there is a rock that he can't lift and if the answer is no, then God isn't all powerful because he can't make such a rock. The problem with the question is that it is asking if God can do a logical impossibility. It's like saying can God make a married bachelor? The answer to this is that God can do all things that can be done. One could also say that God is omnipotent and therefore could create a reality in which things that we consider to be logical impossibilities were possible, but it wouldn't be this reality, and I doubt that we could understand it. But, in any case, we are dealing with this reality, so let's stick to that.
-I just apply the same line of reasoning to omniscience. Let's assume for the sake of argument that you didn't think of monster trucks yesterday. Does God know what you thought about monster truck yesterday. No, that's unknowable because you didn't have such a thought. So, there is something that God does not know. Does that mean he is not omniscient? No, it just means that the question is not logical, God cannot know unknowable things. Again, God is all powerful, so perhaps he could create a reality where it is possible to know logical impossibilities, but again we don't live in that reality so, let's ignore that.
-I believe that it is possible that the future is unknowable. Not because God is in any way limited but because the future has not occurred yet, in this reality and therefore is unknowable. Our free will allows us to make decisions over time that causes us to write the future as we go.
-I believe that God while God cannot know exactly which future that we will write, he does know all possible futures. He can know all of the possible choices that I could make, that you could make, that everyone could make and combined with everything that could happen in the natural world, he can trace each of those effectively infinite possibilities. He likely even assigns probabilities to each of those possible futures because he knows us better than we know ourselves, but there is still room in free will for us to make non logical decisions or decisions that are out of character for ourselves, so our future is uncertain.
-===== How is this useful? =====
-If the future is unknowable, it would explain many seemingly inexplicable things about the Bible and our reality.
-  * Why did God put Adam and Eve in the garden with the fruit of knowledge of good and evil if he knew they were going to eat it and then have to be thrown out of Eden? If there was the possibility that they wouldn't have disobeyed God, our history would be much different.
-  * Why wipe out all of humanity except Noah and his family, why not just start there? There may have been future where mankind made different choices, and the flood would not have been necessary.
-  * Why create people that He knows are not going to be saved? I believe that everyone has the opportunity for salvation depending on the choices that they make.
-  * Why destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? Perhaps God looked at all the possible futures of the people in those cities and realized that no good (or perhaps not enough good) was going to come from there and in His mercy decided to prune that branch in order to prevent much unfruitful and therefor unnecessary suffering. This may also explain the "genocides" that he orders in the Old Testament.
-===== But, doesn't God know the end from the beginning? =====
-He sure does. But this may not be because he can see the future but because he is all powerful and regardless of what we humans do with our freewill, he will determine the end in His time by sending Jesus to Earth to bring about the foretold endtimes.